Whether you believe the future of the jazz industry is a) a truly bright one, b) at risk of vanishing, or c) lies somewhere in between, it certainly faces problems just like any other industry.

I started this group because I am curious as to what your thoughts are on:
- the main problems facing the industry,
- what you think can be done to resolve these problems, and
- what steps / actions can be taken (potentially outside of simply resolving the problem(s)) to ensure a flourishing future for jazz music

I’ve compiled a list of problems / quotes from people in the industry to kick off the discussion (fyi - some of these are potentially outcomes of other problems rather than unique problems in and of themselves). Please feel free to tear them apart if you disagree, add to the list, etc.

"The important thing about a problem is not its solution, but the strength we gain in finding the solution”

1) “The Industry isn’t developing stars.” - Neal Sapper, president of New World ‘n Jazz

The biggest “stars” in the jazz world include the likes of Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, Dave Brubeck, Dizzy Gillespie and numerous others that continue to be the only artists that are recognizable to younger generations of music fans. These artists sold hundreds of thousands of albums. We simply have fewer jazz stars today achieving success of this magnitude, among them Diana Krall and Norah Jones. With all the oustanding talent, few of the so-called young lions of jazz have made profound artistic waves or established lasting big-label support.

2) “There's this general perception that jazz is dead music - dead guys, old guys, old audiences." - Chuck Iwanusa, Jazz Alliance International.

Among young adults and kids, the word ‘jazz’ often times carries with it negative implications: old (both the musicians and the music), boring, unfamiliar, unpopular and unintelligible, to name a few.

3) "Acquired interests like jazz and classical -- consumers don't know how to enter those genres. They're confusing." - Joe Rapolla, former SVP Consumer Marketing at Warner Music Group & VP Consumer Marketing at Universal Music Group. The majority of prospective listeners are simply not educated in what jazz is all about.

4) Since the emergence of the compact disc in 1984, reissues of albums have out sold new artists considerably.

"Say some guy has recreational dough in [his] pocket -- he's sort of interested in jazz and he's confronted at the store with a Thelonious Monk reissue vs. some new record from a kid from the Bay Area. It's a no-brainer where he's going to spend his money.”

5) Jazz artists have difficulty getting their music to the marketplace.

“Guys who make jazz records are asking themselves, `Who are we making records for?"' says Gary Giddins, longtime jazz critic for The Village Voice and author of several award-winning books on music. “The people who run the record companies don't care. You don't hear it on the radio, you don't see it on TV, you don't see it in the stores."

6) Alternatives to music in general

With Netflix, xBox, Playstation, YouTube, TiVo, On Demand, etc. people have more entertainment at their fingertips than ever before. You therefore need to provide someone with a really good reason to shut everything down and choose to go to a jazz club or listen to a jazz CD / mp3 in their free time.

7) “You've got an ultra-conservative industry right now, and that's unfortunate," says David Baker, one of the top jazz recording engineers for the past 30 years. “Safe bets have never been the world that jazz has flourished in."

Sure thing Kennard.

Looking at problem #1 -- I am beginning to think that in order for the jazz industry to truly flourish in the future it does need to develop new ‘stars.’

In my world, it’s very difficult (nearly impossible), to develop stars the old fashion way, i.e. thru playing gigs, developing a fan base, using that fan base to propel the artist to larger / more profitable shows, releasing cd’s, getting exposure on the radio, signing with a record label, etc.
Sure, this sort of process may land you a decent paying job one day but because of a number of the problems I listed in my previous comment the music never reaches a large enough audience to actually help advance / expand / grow the industry as a whole.

However, I absolutely think that it is possible to create new jazz stars. This may sound silly but, how is P Diddy capable of creating an R&B star, almost overnight? Or better yet, Simon Cowell (the dude on American Idol)? They bring the music right into the living room of every US citizen -- using the TV of course. They explore the artist’s (for lack of a better word) personalities, they educate the viewer on the music (sort of), they sometimes involve the viewers (thru voting), etc. and then once the show is over those artists sing the national anthem at the Super Bowl, they do commercials, they go on tour, they’re on the radio, they’re on TV, YouTube, Facebook, myspace, etc. They get great exposure, as the marketing efforts behind them are fairly extensive and well thought out.

Now, though I do feel the Internet is the future (in terms of entertainment), I still think TV is better suited for accomplishing what Simon Cowell, for example, accomplishes, i.e. creating a star, and then the Internet serves as a supplementary tool / marketing medium.

Nevertheless, what I would love to see happen is someone take a chance on exposing jazz music and musicians to a mass audience thru network television, and in the process, educate people on what jazz music really is, and is not… keeping in mind that:
1) There IS jazz music that the uneducated listener can still relate to / understand (I have brought ppl to Ava who have said before coming, ‘I don’t like jazz music’ and sure enough, they had a great time and loved the music), and
2) there are certainly jazz musicians, i.e. their personalities, that the everyday (dare I say it) ‘joe the plumber’ can relate to as well.

The good news is that jazz is entertaining enough that you don’t need to create all the other drama that the shows I mentioned above need to create to keep things interesting. But it DOES need to be fun and entertaining.

Additionally, the shows I mentioned above often only create ‘temporary’ stars, because the musicians they expose are not true artists, whereas with jazz you could create a star that remains in the public eye / profitable until the day they die.

I think this could be one step among many that could give the jazz community a bit of a boost / kick start… but it could also backfire / prove to be ineffective if done the wrong way. And I have close friends that completely disagree and believe that exposing / commercializing jazz in this way would ruin the authenticity (assuming it could be done at all), so I understand the opposition as well.

To launch a career playing jazz, I would consider how to set it in motion and what is necessary to accomplish that. A musical group (I would prefer same personnel throughout the process); and finance, which I would consider governmental programs, grants etc...my sites would be set on using the best launching-pad available...The Grammy's, the #1 show for the music industry.

Greg, This is a wonderful discussion group of the type that this network is seeking. the question raised are salient to the perpetuation of the only artistic National Treasure in American history. It's kind of ironic that Americans are so conditioned to seek and invest in temporary or decreasing values vs. permanent values that have unlimited shelf life, e.g., vintage jazz CDs outselling new issues. An important question is why are there so few contemporary jazz stars. There are certainly market variables but we also need to look at the tradition that produced that jazz stars of the previous generations. One glaring common denominator is that jazz was NOT a classroom subject, i.e., it was not learned in schools rather it was learned through the oral tradition of master-apprentice... in the community. Actually classical music was also learned in the community not in the school. In my generation we played in the school musical groups but the best players learned their skills outside of the school environment through private lessons and/or community mentorship. The level of training needed to produce stars requires levels of initiation or trials-by-fire. The oral tradition in every culture uses rites of passage to qualify the adept for mastery. The classroom never did. The community environments that produced the previous jazz stars have faded into obscurity beginning with the demise of the musicians clubs nationally during the mid-1960s when the black locals merged with the white locals, gave up their clubs, buildings and records and experienced massive unemployment as a consequence of this "so-called" integration. This is an historical and economic fact. This happened at a time when black musicians had not penetrated the symphonies, operas or pit orchestras to any significant degree if at all. Prior to the mid 60s there was a segregated marketplace called the Chittlin' Circuit. The airwaves played "race records" on select stations and the recording companies exploited the best musicians by holding back product to create false scarcity and kept the money generated from flowing to the artist for their intellectual property. Though many of those "stars" are dead, others are still being deprived of their royalties earned over the years. One prime example is pianist Freddie Redd, whose music is listed on 54 Google pages being sold by people he doesn't know who also ignore his existence. Freddie once told me that the main problem with jazz is that it is not heard anymore... not that it is old. Mozart and Beethoven are old and people both young and old still respond positively to it without even questioning its vintage... because they hear it all the time everywhere whether they are seeking it or not. Jazz used to be the sound-track of the black community, i.e., it was heard everywhere. Every kid wanted to learn how to play it. Every kid had a musical hero or heroine just like they have athletic ones today. In fact, the professional athletes used to follow the jazz musicians around. Let's not forget the journalists who have re-labeled the music and created false genre divisions that create the illusion that jazz, blues, gospel and rock, soul, and R & B, etc. are separate musics when they are simply branches and twigs of the same African American Music Tree that has it's roots in the blues that came directly from West Africa. The question is: Why don't we know this? Nobody talks about it is the main reason. Yet I have seen the "immaculate reception" over 1000 times over the past 35 years. children under 15 can tell you who Franco Harris is... or maybe Mozart or even OJ Simpson. I met some young musicians in the club last week where I was playing with the Blues Orphans who were fascinated and very moved by the experience. They want to see us again and will seek us out. They wanted to know who I had played with and when I mentioned Count Basie, they had never heard of him. I asked them if they had heard of Duke Ellington and they said, "No." I mentioned a dozen other names that we take for granted that are the major stars and they had never heard of them either and they were all stars of America's National Treasure. I know for certain, if rather than mentioning a litany of names, I had played some the music of the same people, they would have been hook just as everyone else is hooked when they hear it. MUSIC ENTERS THE HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS THROUGH THE EARS not the eyes, tongue, or nostrils. These and many other reasons are why this discussion is important. It is also why we are sponsoring the Pittsburgh Jazz Network Forum monthly at the New Hazlett Theatre. At the forum we can not only discuss the music but we can also demonstrate it in vivo. Please try to join us on March 8 from 8 - 11pm. See the "Events" post on this network. (Beginning of commercial)

Hi Nelson,

I really dig what you had to say.

I really wish my dad was still around so I could hear his stories about teaching all the jazz musicians, i.e. George Benson, who came through Connelley, Fifth Avenue, and Brashear, and the folks who ran the Black Musicians Union.

My Dad was gonna give me a tour of the Hill District Jazz Scene as part of my cultural report for a WVU Humanities Class, but he died of congestive heart failure the weekday before he was gonna pick me up from West Virginia University.

He really emphasized seeing the classic Crawford Grill and The Hill House Jam Sessions.

Unfortunately, I only made it to The Crawford Grill at Station Square (I actually played a paid gig there with Miguel's Guaracha Band), and 1 Hill House Jam Set.

I feel that jazz has to be learned both inside the classroom and outside on the bandstand.

I'm very honored that you and Harold Young, Sr. have taken me under your wings with developing me into both a heavyweight-Super Bowl- Pittsburgh Steeler Player and Head Coach in the jazz scene for Pittsburgh, PA.

I'm very blessed that you're so active in my Jazz Workshop, Inc. Outreach Programs and the annual big band concert in the summer.

To all the Pittsburgh Jazz Network- It's thrill and a Gift from God when all kinds of hip Pgh. jazz groups call me up to the bandstand for sittin' in with their group and the jam set.

And when Sean Jones walks onto the bandstand when I get done with the head and the solo - Wow! God has really blessed me with talent (However, I had to work like 28 some years (I'm 40 now, and I've been playin' since I was 10- My family has heard me in the woodshed for like 30 years- Thanks for listenin' Mom) to accomplish this feat.

To all of us who work steady as jazz musicians and jazz educators- Let's be thankful- Yeah, I know 50 bucks a piece might really stink- but those who complain and refuse to accept these offers- YOU END UP SITTIN' AT HOME MAKIN' ZERO BUCKS!
REMEMBER- BE THANKFUL FOR WHAT YOU HAVE AND ALWAYS THANK THE LEADER OF THE GROUP AND THE MUSICIANS WHO YOU WORK WITH AT EACH REHEARSAL, JAM SET, AND GIGS, AND MUSICAL THEATER SHOWS!

It seems that jazz is havin' a tough time, but remember- We gotta stick together and perservere through these tough times.

For those of you who wonder- Who is this Ed Skirtich guy- Come down and hang out with me at Jazz Workshop, Inc. every Sat. from 12 PM to 4:30 PM at 7101 Hamilton Ave, Pgh, PA 15206 CLPGH Homewood in the auditorium.

Peace,
Feel free to contact me too via this site, or email ejskirtich@comcast.net
(412) 422-4149 (H)
(412) 841-8046 (C)

P.S. I always do my best to let out my feelings and thoughts on issues with the jazz scene in Pgh.
Sometimes folks may be angry or "Man- Why's Ed bein' like that?"
I get very emotional on jazz issues and I just like bein' open and giving my opionions on issues.

But to end my usual long winded jazz phiolosophy writing on a positive note- I really dig bein' a part of this network- AND I'M SO PROUD OF WHAT WE ACCOMPLISH AS JAZZ MUSICIANS AND JAZZ EDUCATORS!

LET'S KEEP MOVIN' FORWARD!

MUSICALLY,
ED SKIRTICH
ARTISTIC DIRECTOR/JAZZWORKSHOP, INC.
(412) 422-4149 (H)
(412) 841-8046 (C)

Greg, jazz as a genre is immortal. Organization and dialogue, of and with every jazz society, jazz association etc. in this country should and could be established. Strategies, finance, artist etc. and pertinent issues addressed. The jazz community, nation-wide, has to come together and create its own success, produce its own product and manufacture its own celebrity.

Peace and Bless,

I am loving this already, well personally I believe that supporting poetry events and poets will be Jazzs own advertisement to ensure the continue love for the musical genre!

I founded a new non-profit organization and this past Feb, 28, 2009 ...African Vines hosted the "1st Annual Jazz & Poetry Festival!!!! This is my commitment to ensure the Jazz Industry flourish!

If I may I would like to offer answers ot your questions. Even thought i lay a brood brush stroke I feel they are good answers to problems you face as creative minds and entertainers. As folows~



A few years ago I wrote a letter called “*A Roll Call” Its premise was: A call to action for creative minds to not only record history but to also write our future. As it’s no big secret our Nation, as a whole, has slipped away from culture and fell into consumerism. We lost that balance that holds democratic civilizations afloat. Culture is as important to this world as is oil. Without creative minds we lay stagnate in our past accomplishments but mostly our mistakes. Without different prospective(s) our world gets bulged down.


My perspective, on the creative mind, is more reaching then their ability to produce a brush stroke on a canvas, rhyme a few words or play a few notes. They are story tellers and aggressive truth seekers. Humanitarian’s scholars and activists. They tell us of love and hate -of success and failure. They give us visions of inverse ideas and stunning mysteries, A creative mind gives you their honest opinion focused on perfection. No matter the subject the creative mind puts their entire self into their work. The creative mind constantly educating themselves, breaking boundaries and speaking for the disenfranchised. So once again I call upon you the creative mind to set out, define your passion and record our lives from your perspective..

The perfect opportunity of a life time is here; if that’s what you need to get yourself in gear. Unless you’re blinded by the deceptions, which may be the case, you’d noticed this decade has affected the whole human race. Everything from Corruption to Greed has boiled to a head; Mother Nature keeps us aware she’s not dead. Millions of lives changed over a minuscule period of history; via that beast misery. Never before have we had such an amazing decade then this the last one gone by. A decade of change for the good, and a time of terror from the sky. A decade of which is becoming a blur slipping into obscurity doomed to die. Yes -yes the time is near, a time for you to record how we ended up here. In times, as this, when it’s hard to trust, everyone lying to cover their steps, the artist must sooth those injured souls and record their amazing stories to be told.

Where are the Singers of song, with lyrical stories that give us calm? Where are you the vocal prophet, putting our history in those pages, documenting our misgivings and passions that will teach the ages? Like those in times of despair that we have followed, song is comfort for the pill that’s hard to swallow.

Where are you writer of words, your finely honed weapon’s need to be heard? Where is your great novel of imagination, inspiring us with silver lined fabrications? Where is you’re word giving us the lessons we need -rapped in stories or told straight out, giving us the right to lay in place or to speak out. Your words give us consolations, taking from us our pain and fear -bring us closer to that we hold dear.

Where are the musical leaders of our time, mixing the rhythm with the rhyme? With music so up lifting it fits our soul, giving us reason to explore and grow. You take away the day’s trouble with the tapping of our feet, happiness entrusted in a package so neat. Where are the taker’s of our folklore, to you we give our secrets and our soul, our troubles nothing more.

Where are the artist’s that dictate the passing of time to their canvas, from nothing you giving us another advantage. Colors and stokes placed with dedication, giving our life eternal explanation. With pigment and thought you give a window to our actions, telling all our stories from your observations.

In times as this one thing is certain, tomorrow will bring surprises and frustrations, without creative mind’s to sort it all out our history will be up to a distant generation. Why give those that yet have arrived this daunting task, a mission of clouded terms that they may convolute in inaccurate facts. Stand up those that want the story to be in line, use your wonderful minds in telling Our history of desperate times.



As I sit sleepless, well past a normal hour on this cool mid week’s night, I realize my mission like a bright star out side, my life will not be showered in gold, however we have a story that needs to be told. We must do our duty and become Historians of our season, to deny it just fails to reason.

If I may I would like to offer answers ot your questions. Even thought i lay a brood brush stroke I feel they are good answers to problems you face as creative minds and entertainers. As folows~

I agree with CWR; now's the time; the doors are opened wide...but we have to apply ourselves.

Wide open is a understament Kennard. What else does the common person have but that good feeling they get from Culture. Not that pricey over the top grand standing culture either. The Culture that is easy to swollow and makes them feel its about them.

One thing I’ve noticed, is the inability(lately) to communicate, between "artists ",as far as that goes between humans. Many drive head fast into a idea, but come up short when theory comes close to becoming practice. One thing, I believe ,stops many for succeeding is that strange thing breed out of the 80's. Independence (which started in the mid-1950's) which has killed the community, so to say. So many have been able to form their own paths or ideals, but they have not been able to get over the idea of having different ideals. Fear and greed cuts like a knife. Now here we are, few belong to groups other then to promote themselves, we have little ties to the outside world other then for self promotion. The only way something gets done is if there’s something(if not all) in it for ”me”. Let me state that’s not a bad thing, wanting your share. However its not the time for selfish needs, and its not going to be that time again for so years. If those creative minds can agree to disagree, culture has a chance. I've heard that we learn from our past, I'm not sure how that works but it must by correct. So what has our past taught us? Its teaches us to take different paths each time we re-approach our goals ( rules of combat.) Some many do not want to change and are locked into the idea that the past is a place we can bring back. It is not , it’s the past never to be repeated. However we can adapt what we’ve learn from those seemingly far off days and forge a new time.

Aloha,

I would like to invite all members of Pittsburgh Jazz Network, musicians, singers and just lovers of outstanding music to visit us, at www.thejazzintersection.com and become part of our family. If you're an artist, your music is welcomed on our site. The world is waiting for the exciting music of yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Send me album's or mp3's. I would love to play your music for the world to hear.
We also, love doing interviews.

Send to; thejazzi@thejazzintersection.com or james_harber2001@yahoo.com.
98-402 Koauka Lp. #2011
Aiea, Hawaii 96701
(808) 486-9759 (office)
(808) 294-9131 (cell)

Thank each of you for your participation and comments on this important topic. The very act of doing this is forging a solution as many of you have already said. This is great.

I am now in the Phoenix, Az city of Jazz now as a resident and am still learning the scene here and work conditions. I will be able to comment further after I have had a chance to circulate a little more. As an introduction, it seems quite promising so far. I like what I am experiencing.

I for one hope to be part of the future of the Jazz industry. As my profile reads, I'm in the beginning stages of forming a jazz fusion group.
I've learned a few things from the rock scene in Pittsburgh and I'm trying to translate those things and gather new ideas and info about getting into the jazz scene.
As a note to one of the things CWR said, I am big into "group" music. The theory behind what I'm trying to form is to have a core group, likely 4 or 5 people, and feature other artists with different instruments and styles on a broad range of tracks melting jazz into many other genres.

So the whole package and experience will never will focus on one person alone. Rather the sound is rich with the different influences and ever changing and flying in all directions.

I think if my idea pans out, it could be a great thing in this city and hopefully well beyond.
I'm looking for a pianist and a vocalist/lyricist. So any help I can get on here would be fantastic.

Kara,
Wondeful guiding thoughts. I have found, throught my discussions with some many people,they are just afraid. So many complain that we can not get along,but they do not extend that hand. Some many "say" they want better ,however receed back into thier comfort zone everytime. Afraid of what they may have to face for having thier own thoughts and ideals.

Again beautiful thoughts.

Kara,
Wondeful guiding thoughts. I have found, throught my discussions with many people,they are just afraid. So many complain that we can not get along,but they do not extend that hand. So many "say" they want better ,however receed back into thier comfort zone everytime. Afraid of what they may have to face for having thier own thoughts and ideals.

Again beautiful thoughts.

I have just read this thread and every comment has merit. Jazz, as proscribed by the "jazz purists" or "jazz nazis" as I call them, has been elevated to a haute art form and taken away from the streets from which it sprung. It has become intimidating the neophyte jazz listener. Wynton Marsalis is as guilty as any jazzer in promulgating this phenomenon. Jazz, as musical art form, needs to absorb other influences such as rap, hip-hop, pop etc. to evolve and survive. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. Emerging artists are often confronted with jazz snobbery in the form of idol worship for the artists of the past. Well here's a newsflash, Miles Davis was NOT the greatest trumpet player who ever lived. I can think of at least one emerging artist who can "kick his can" technically and artistically. We can all safely treasure the "greats" while nurturing new talent. Bring on the "newbies"..they are the future of the art form called jazz.

Aja..thank you for the list to check out. Check out trumpeter Mark Rapp...he is astonishing.

Hi All,

Wow! There's some folks really upset about what's goin' on in the jazz scene!

Here are some of my perspectives:

At jam sessions we have to endure the house band playing thousands and thousands of notes over thousands and thousands of choruses on say maybe four or five tunes.

The thousands and thousands of notes over the thousands and thousands of choruses makes no sense at all.

Folks at the jam sets never, ever play the appropiate style of jazz- All they hear is applause!

Jam sets aren't supposed to be "Hey, Look At Me! I'm A Star!"

Jam sets are supposed to be sessions where we learn from each other, and network with each other!

I'm so tired of everbody playin' for nothin' at these jam sets, and when I call them for gigs, the complain that it's only $ 50!

Yeah, I agree, that would be great to get paid at least $ 1,000 or more a gig, but if you want to make that kind of money- Look for another job!

Another thing with jam sets- Stop treating the musicians like crap!

We gotta wait all night to play, and when we're up there- Everybody's yellin' at everybody about how many choruses to play- Let us jam set musicians express ourselves- Because without us jam session musicians WHO ARE VOLUNTEERING OUR TIME WHILE THE HOUSE BAND GETS PAID, WE SHOULD BE TREATED WITH DIGNITY AND WE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CHOOSE WHAT TUNES WE WANT TO PLAY!

As far as those comments on Miles Davis- Wow- That's awfully insulting to the History of Jazz- I love what Miles Davis did for the genre of jazz- Jazz ain't supposed to be - BADEBADABADOBALABABALEBADEBOPLABABADABADABARABABADABADABADOBALABALEBADEBABEBEBEBOP! Which is all you hear for the 4 or 5 hours at he jam set!

As far as those comments on Miles Davis- How can anyone not love the album "Kind Of Blue"? How can anyone not love the Miles Davis Albums "Seven Steps To Heaven, " "Porgy and Bess," The CD with "Milestones" and "Straight, No Chaser," Miles' suddel humor playin' with Charlie Parker, Miles' interpretations of Cyndi Lauper's "Time After Time," and Michael Jackson's "Human Nature."

Man, Miles could really swing hard too!

Jazz is about soul and beauty and not BEBADABABEDABABABADEBADABEBOP, Etc.

And those comments abour Wynton Marsalis- We would not have jazz music or jazz education if it weren't for Wynton Marsalis!

Anyways, those are my thoughts!

Ed Skirtich

Kind of Blue turned me on to Jazz. Jam sessions are like going to church. You don't know the sermon until its out there. Ok, not exactly like church, but it's supposed to be full of heart.

Keep on jamming, some people really enjoy it!

ok...here it is as i see it. our music...jazz...was being really listened to and appreciated as true art form...lets say from Charkie Parker's time onward...lets say, up until perhaps 15 yrs ago. Why? Jazz requires a little more sophisticated listener than what the public at large, is capable of today. Proof?? Rock and roll...came in. Certainly easy to listen to and "get into". Can any lover of good music seriously argue that "rock" can stand serious scrutiny, alongside bebop. I mean...Elvis Presley??? ok..he was handsome. he shook a mean hip. could he play guitar? Please!!! in jazz one can name two dozen guys who can play guitar...beyond three basic chords!!! not to say people arent entitled to listen to what they like. certainly! but...what do bizarre costumes have to do with great music?? If you want to listen to, people who can really play their axe...or want to hear great music...go to the masters. Bach, Wagner, Beethoven Tschiakowski..et al thats great music. Here comes Parker, playin like no one before. He set the stage for many other great instrumentalists. I can name a hundred.. Great singers? Joe Williams, Sinatra, Bennett, McCrea..Fitzgerald..Vaughn...just to name a few. I thinkd of the great big bands...Basie, Ellington..Rich...Herman...and, ive omitted a dozen others!!!
now we have "rap". at the risk of bein' booed off this page...p u..l..e..a..s..e..!!! No chord structure. Words that border on...maddness!
I make no apologies for my strong feelings. I love "our music", sooo much...i'm fearless in my feelings regarding todays "sounds"
An other big big item...the people who used to GO OUT....raise a little hell...have a drink or two...hang out in a joint like Crawford Grill...have reached the age, where they just dont go out anymore. Its easier to sit at home...watch tv...or listen to a great cd! This isnt a rap against those who used to SUPPORT jazz. Its just a natural thing. the passage of time precludes active participation in "our music".
Hell...the people who DO go out and support music..today..probably never heard of Philly Joe, or Mobley..or Rosolino..or Peterson...or Coltrane..or Davis!!! Its sad, but true.
Ill probably catch all kind of hell for the foregoing,,,but I just feel it is true...and I feel it strongly
I applaud u and your supportive group, in trying to re-open Crawford Grill. You can be certain, I'll be there...opening night, and many nights thereafter. I was born and raised on "the hill"! You can take the kid out of the hill...but, not the hill, out of the kid!!
Donny C the bebop fanatic

WOW What a loaded question. I was at a seminar this winter and argued for about an hour that jazz did not originate in Africa..lots and lots of influence but it's not like the meranque or some dance done by peasants in the hills in SA....it goes further than that. i was trained as a classical pianist, opera singer, flautist, guitatrist and some others but jazz is where I ended up. Why? Because I have perfect pitch, hence a lousy reader and I can improvise. You don't NEED music. Everything I play comes from my heart. Can I get others to get that? I don't know. I do know that more often than not, the answer is :"no". I have been discouraged( I am fam ous for it) and felt like a donkey could have been doing my job......Pittsburgh has m music lovers.

Jazz before bebop was dance music along with blues , gospel etc. in two. Bebop put it in four and became art music but all the purveyors had dance , praise experience. Also recordings were chronicles of a 50s or 60s jazzmen to introduce material then move on. The 70s records had better tech but a lot of them sounded terrible ( pop. dicso, etc.) The combination of acoustic and electronic instruments posed a challenge. Today there are amazing CD's of Joe Newman Live at Count Basie's club with excellent sound. the hardware(players) are affordable. A cousin posted a wonderful video from You tube of George Coleman doing 'I Could Write a Book'. In his late 40s and a jazz fan he did not know who George was! I told him you read Sports Illustrated if you like sports, Down beat etc. is there for jazz. Now he will use the net !So as far as local artists, he is just discovering a world class artist. today you can enjoy the masters still living on the net and better CDs of a 60s Miles record than a 70s pressing or even on Miles or Herbies music Myspace! the future of jazz has to be a LIVE one if it is to endure.

Jazz not even mentioning bebop was never for everybody but was community based. A 54yr old african -american who started a blue jazz society told me when she was young OLD folks listened to Jazz. She also said jazz is INSTRUMENTAL, singing and dancing is POP. What did Billy Eckstine and Gregory Hines do? Bebop was the Start of modern music and is the basis for studio musicians , Motown, Philly International etc. I know electric bass players who can play or learn ANY Motown bass line but they can not play JAZZ. Calculus is one of the newer maths to come down the pike and it is 200 yrs old! Jazz musicians invented the Motown Sound, all the studios employed good musicians. I grew up playing funk, soul, then gospel in the black community and the better we got at doing it the less money we made. Jazz cats played Polkas, Standards, blues, did 10 times as many gigs with less equipment and over head. Today there are no black trumpet played from the 70s funk bands I played in who still play in my town. I am the only sax player who still plays because of study, practice and a committment to jazz and blues. Guru was a great artist, Rap/spoken word etc. are all viable but Max Roach said most Rappers are not in the music department but the Drama or Poetry department. In Europe DaVinci, Michaelangeloetc. were before musicians and suffered first. Music was not the backbone of the arts. In USA music is the backbone of the arts because of slavery, no other art form, sport documented the black experience from the start. Today there still is a chasm between music and 'the arts'. Music programs in USA were watered down and dismantled starting in the 50s, luckily a lot of folks thought music was still important just as a lot of attitudes after the Rosa Parks decision did not change. When I took clarinet lessons in grade school (1966)there was a sax, drum, trumpet etc. a group lesson. They were fun but not that good. The chitlin circuit which groomed black entertainers was on it's last leg. Miles Davis was mentored by Clark terry in Stl. and was 2 yrs youinger. Does Wynton Marsalis have a mentor who is less than 5 yrs older? Tony Campbell ? Freddie Hubbard was 20 yrs older than Wynton what about Woody Shaw? Look at the movie 'TAP.

Hey check out the story I wrote on Roy Ayers and Tom Brown
http://www.newpittsburghcourieronline.com/index.php?option=com_cont...

i doubt it.  Rock 'n Roll did it in.  Yuh gotta listen to jazz.  Its requires ones attn.  Truthfully, its a little "over the listening public's head".  Rock???  it hits you over the head.  you've heard Presley.  nuthin' much there.  take away  the rhine-tone costumes and what d'y have?  You're not gonna hear Gershwin, or Porter or Mercer...need I go n?  Could Presley blo guitar?  but it sold.  thats  the operative word...it sold!  Country western...ever heard any of them play guitar?  They dont have to...people love country.  im not bum-rappin it; im just callin it the way I see (hear) it.  Pass, Benson, Hall and 5 doz others could play guitay.  It rarely sold  Too heavy.  Coltrane, Peterson Blakey???  Nah, people wont invest the time to "dig"!  Blakey was an abberation.  He had probably the best and the most great 4-5 man groups of anyone...thank God!  You wanna hear Johnny cash?  You and I dont..but, we're in the minority.  If the "Grill" ever opens, I'll be there!  I was born and raised on Congress and Wylie Ave.  I heard some great great musicians up there.  guys cant afford to "go on the road" today.  cant even make expenses.  we've got some fine players right here in Pgh.  Humphries on Thurs nites.  Little E Club, w/ Sean Jones.  Nelson Harrison just carrying on the tradition..blowin here and there.  Nah...Rap is in.  Who listens to basie or any of a doz great big bands of the past.  About all we can do, is go out and support the guys we have in twn.  They're still out there..carrying on a great music tradition..bless 'em.  The least we can do, Is follow 'em around and DIG... and remember the past.Buy the cd s.  art farmer, Dizzy, Ellington and on and on and on.  It was a time of genius...today???  MEDIOCRICTY...AT THE VERY BEST!!!  I know..I sound bitter.  Nah...I just miss it so.  But, I had the best of it.  There's a lot of people around today, who were NEVER even exposed to the giants of the past!!.......
Donny C    jazzdon13@verizon.net

Came to this thread rather late in the game. One thing i noticed about the MAJORITY of the comments: they are focused on the past. I'm 65 years old and, although I appreciate the historical significance of it, I'm kind of tired of Bebop. I cut my teeth on big band and swing as well as Doo-Wop and Motown. It's all part of the library / vocabulary but I listen to it only occassionnally. I don't want to linger over Satchmo anymore than I do Elvis. Play something new, already! Tell me who mentored Bill Heid, Sean Jones, Marcus Miller, Dwayne Dolphin, Howie Alexander. I studied jazz history in college. It was great, but its the past. Music is a living, breathing thing and jazz more so than some other genres because of the improvisational element. The new shit is out there, people. The new players are out there. I believe we should start listening to them with the fresh ears they deserve. Hopefully, they will do their due diligence and be informed by the past masters. BUT, if some hick comes up out of the swamp who's never heard of Coltrane but can blow outrageous tenor, I want to hear it. As a musical form jazz is a mere infant, and it sounds to me like y'all have relegated it to a nursing home.

Reading through some of these comments, I appreciate all the views people have.  But as a Club owner that is and has been dedicated to live music 4 nights per week, the biggest obstacle is the Jazz community in itself.  All I hear is people tell me, "I support jazz"  and I ask the how?  The respond with I listen to it on 90.5 FM all the time.  Well listening and supporting are two different thigs.  We offer a variety of musicians, old and new.  We bring a great blend of sounds.  Is it to much to ask if you are going to come and enjoy a no cover show that you can spend $10.00?  You want live music in a great room we have it.  You tell me where else you can go for $10-12.00 and enjoy some good food and great music???  It is here Pittsburgh it has been for three years.

To Little E's Jazz Club:    <3  <3  <3 
I love Little E's!!! I hear your frustration. Please accept my sincere apology for not banging your drum in the middle of my whine. Little E's is a most deserving establishment. Real LIVE music being made by real LIVE people in a delightful atmosphere. I've been there 5 or 6 times and thoroughly enjoyed myself; except for this past July 1 when Bill Heid's gig was cancelled due to technical difficulties. (The best laid plans, etc. I'm whining again.)

I definitely avail myself of Little E's booking savvy as a means of introduction to bright young musicians. (IMO, both singers and players are musicians. Little E's books some very talented vocalists as well as players.)

I've thought about coming to one of your Thursday Night Entrepeneur gatherings but, since I'm retired and don't sing anymore, thought perhaps the space would be better utilized by someone younger and more ambitious. (I'm not ambitious anymore; just opinionated.)

And speaking of opinions, I'm about to share another one of mine with this group. IMHO, people would better serve the Pittsburgh Jazz Scene by investing their energy in supporting an existing establishment, one like Little E's, rather than lobbying for the resuscitation of the Crawford Grill. (May it RIP; I lied my way in when I was 17 to hear Kenny Burrell.)

Thank you, Little E's, and keep up the good work.

Thank you!!!

What is Jazz Anyway? ... Part 1 .
Monday, 15 August 2011 22:12 Jonathan Martin .Jazz continues to escape and evade any sort of comprehensive definition. From the very beginning to today people haven't been able to pin-point what it is that makes Jazz music Jazz.

This has been the topic of discussion all the way from bar stools long forgotten to coffee shop bistro tables; all the way up through complete doctoral dissertations dedicated to defining Jazz.

While Jazz is considered a genre of music. It continually disappoints people who have their own expectations of what Jazz should sound like. I used to be really frustrated after buying a CD that I thought was going to be straight-ahead Jazz, and it turned out to be some variation of Funk or Fusion. All considered Jazz, but different flavors.

As a result, I chose not to buy albums I hadn't already heard. It was a quesstion of economics. I don't have money to spend on music I may not like, and I don't know anyone else who does either.

So, here we see highlighted the problem that Jazz musicians run into time and again. We try to be different, to be original. But, potential fans just don't buy if they don't know what to expect from us.

Every artist has their concept of the music that they want to convey, and they try to be unique with their own "voice". Unless they copy the style of another artist. Let's face it, lot's of Jazz players, even today, try to speak with Miles Davis' or John Coltrane's "voice".

It used to be called "the truly American art form". But, that is no longer the case. Today Jazz is practiced worldwide in every country that has musical instruments. And, each musician in each country uses Jazz and mixes it with their knowledge of their own music to create something unique.

So, there is the real secret to Jazz.

The secret that Scott Joplin, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, and all the other great Jazz musicians and composers knew.

Jazz is a modifier. It is the secret sauce you add to your own music that makes it better.



Come back for Part II when we talk about the very beginning of Jazz, and uncover the origins of the
Jazz concept ...

How do you define Jazz? What makes music Jazz? Tell us in the Comments below.

Greetings All! 

Recently, I responded to comments from one of the members of this conversational group.   I don't know if my remarks became a part of this conversation or not.   However, having been blessed to be around numerous musicians (instrumentalists and singers) of several and various abilities, I learned to appreciate and respect many genres of music, along with the talented people who teach and play the music.   If I may, I would like to begin my comments by what I would like to say is a jazzed up description of various types of music.   It will be okay, if this gets me into some trouble because of my inclusion of a little banter and jest, due to my thinking on our topic.   First of all, I'm not claiming to be some authority on Jazz but I've been giving our topic a great deal of thought for a long time, and what I come up with is that the different categories of music (to picture the distinctions) is this:  most all of music has common origins around the heartbeat (if I might be a little spiritual and give credit where credit is due).  Some may call it some other kind of beat.   Whatever the beat or origins that you might want to attach to music, it is music popped-up, music blued-up, music countryed-up, music rocked-up, music jazzed-up, music gospeled-up, music spirited-up, music classed-up, and some folk have even termed it various other kinds of upped.    Whatever,  this is what I would like to say to begin with.  Secondly, I believe that music jazzed-up can endure and grow if musicians who play and create jazz to music also accept what I also believe about jazz, and that is (i.e) as jazz musicians embellish and add its various colors to the music with its unique arrangements and improvisations that, even moreso, you or we accept the challenge that our lifestyles should improve commensurately (having the same or similar measurements), likened to other disciplines that improve ones way of life.   Another attribute that I noticed when listening to many of the greater legends of Jazz was that was that their music somehow never lost its connection with the soul or heartbeats of the listeners.   Even the most abstract of the of the legends, somehow,  found a way to bring the music back home, meaning to touch the heart and soul of their listeners.  The greater challenge, however, is to produce the new jazz that will come forth from the new mindset.      This is just my humble contribution to the conversation.  I am, however, interested in hearing some jazz music that I can release, promote and distribute under my independent "Music of Pittsburgh" Jazz label division.   That is how much I believe in "the Future of Jazz" and what my intentions are to support my beliefs.  Even the Legends of Jazz demonstrated holding on to the old foundations while bringing forth something new.   I welcome any feedback, and, again, I thank you Dr. Nelson Harrison for establishing this forum and this site, and for being "the Minister of Jazz."