Hola, Nelson.

Good Morning

Dear Nelson,

Thanks for your invitation .

Regards

Marta

Hey Nelson. It seems to me that the problem is three fold. The audience, the clubs and the musicians.
1. The majority of audience members aren't educated in many respects (concerning jazz anyway). It's also difficult to get people out in an economy that is struggling. People also have so much entertainment at their fingertips. why leave the house.
2. Club owners are not typically willing to invest in live music for the long haul. They typically like the idea when the first few weeks are happening. then audiences taper off. Seems to me that they have to make long term investments.
3. Musicians aren't giving people anything to come see. We play the same stuff (myself included) on every gig. We have to write new music, present different configurations and celebrate each other. A great example is AVA on Monday's. Howie has begun introducing new music and presents "old" music in new settings. We could all learn from that. It's just time for all of us to step up. Don't get me wrong, what's out there is great. I just imagine quite frequently how much greater things can get from week to week.

I would love to open a jazz/music venue in the pgh area...but I'm not sure of how well it would do with the pgh demographic? I would really appreciate anyone's feedback and thoughts on the idea!

I can speak on this issue because as a manager, I can say it is AN UPHILL CLIMB to book acts into music venues. First of all a lot of venue owners are just plain shady! Not paying acts, etc. Second, many of my clients have great overseas appeal. With the economy being what it is, venue owners in Europe and beyond are averse to bringing acts from the U.S. because transportation costs just militate against that. Third, I see no uniqueness or any attempts to really stand apart from the rest, so the same five acts are at all of the venues.

It's really dog eat dog out here, but then, that's the industry.

Hey Nelson, I know in Boston has lost a lot of jazz spots in my time. Paul's Mall and the Jazz Work Shop were my favorite places. I meet some Jazz greats there. The best one was Miles Davis. Love Ya Nelson and I'm still waiting for that music on your page.

Back in the day, the clubs ere the draw. People went to the venues because they knew every band was going to be a very good one. Today club owners expect us to do that. We have changed with the times "as a business", but they won't. By the way; I agree with Sean about material we play. We must respect each other as individuals. Each uniqueily playing music to the audience--not other musicians. We are the ones who can start the change. Hello to all.
Warmest regards,
Tony

Hi Nelson.....thanks for the invite.....I agree with sean jones about musicians not giving people anything to see or hear.... and yes the clubs now have to compete with all other entertainment espesially home entertainment, where alot of this music can be seen and heard via the internet......We musicians must come up with NEW inovative things to see and hear at the clubs....that's when they will start to prosper again.....Also business taxes on clubs need to be eased as these taxes are so great as to not allow a profitable venue...........Stix

One of the overarching problems that Pittsburgh is facing is the cultural facelift that it has been undergoing for the past decades.
The demographic base has changed drastically in Pittsburgh from locals who were steeped in the jazz traditions of the city to non-locals who have relocated there for the technology and medical professions. This gradual change in the demographic has finally come home to roost and the reality is most don't care for jazz. Can you believe it?! Therefore, the city investors look right past jazz culture when seeking investments that promise returns. Combine that with the institutionalization of jazz and you have the current condition. Institutionalizing jazz replaces club culture with schools, colleges and universities as the main outlet for young players. BUT, what if you can't go to those institutions? Where do you get the chance to hone your skills? Not on the bandstand that's for sure. Then consider the only places that can afford to showcase jazz are also institutions like, Mellon, PITT, Duquesne, or the MCG. It is very dangerous to allow this institutionalization of jazz, especially in a city with such a vibrant and important jazz history. (BTW: It's happening all over the country).

I mostly agree with Sean jones on his first point. This is really the problem. It all starts at the source. If a club can make money from entertainment, most times it will have entertainment. In order for Jazz to be more of a money maker we need a bigger audience. The problem we have is with our culture... We don't support it! Our government doesn't support it! Most countries are proud of their traditions and creations. And work to keep them alive! We, on the other hand, don't. We've created Jazz and our government doesn't care! If it did, we would have a much bigger budget for school music programs and so we could educate our youth and keep our beautiful Jazz tradition alive. Now, Jazz is more appreciated in Europe than in the states. Why?... Because they appreciate culture even if it's not their own. You see... Jazz is like a fine wine. You have to know something about it to appreciate it. If it goes over your head, you won't understand it and may not like it. Musically uneducated people tend to like Pop music more because that's all they have ever known. And you don't need to know anything about boom ,crack, boom, crack to get you moving. It's in your face. and you're not looking to get anything more from it. You don't know that there is anything deeper that music can offer therefore don't look for it.
That's where are cultural education and government comes in. It's so simple...,The more people we can enlighten, the more audience we will have. Hence, the more live music venues we will have. No two ways about it.

I agree with you Sean... It seems to me that the problem is three fold. The audience, the clubs and the musicians. ... maybe even five-fold...
1. The majority of audience members aren't educated in many respects (concerning jazz anyway). much hipper and deeper RADIO play could help that immensely. Both here and across the country it's hard for anyone to hear the best of what's called Jazz. This music is as profound as any but there are so few that play jazz on radio that have any idea of what's been done or what's being done.
2. Club owners are not typically willing to invest in live music for the long haul. and there really hasn't been a true Jazz Club in Pittsburgh since the demise of the Chitlin' circuit... that would have been the Crawford Grill, Hurricane Bar and Pittsburgh Musicians' Union Local No. 471... the Balcony and James Street were well run, fine restaurants that gave a home to many soulful players for a couple of decades... and that's about it. Corporate franchises don't have the economic interest to put a good room together for high level jazz music. And the remainder of rooms that put a couple of nights in their weekly calendar so often lack the passion or understanding. They have no clue as to who to call, that just might stir things up on a consistant basis
3. Musicians aren't giving people anything to come see. I hear you Sean on all of what you said in your post... I I think you're so right. I also think it starts with "feeling the music". You play with feeling, intensity and spirit that audiences in turn FEEL. Thursdays at CJ'sI with Roger Humphries is a fine example ... He's been carrying on a weekly musical offering for decades... and there's one consistent thing... Roger, Dwayne, Lou, Max and Jamie or Tony Campbell or you Sean, all play with "story-telling" feeling. Look around, that's what makes the room groove-u-late. There is a "gold standard" that has been given by the masters and those who actively play this music should constantly strive for that. In the end, if you're playing to an audience, tell your story and give that audience something they can soulfully FEEL.

started a blog about this a while ago on my page here..its called,
What happened to the Pgh jazz clubs?
please see the forum on my page
click here
there are some very significant comments there on this subject.
I hope there is a powerful forward movement to renew the live Jazz scene in Pgh and everywhere else too!
It matters.
miss you Pgh

These comments are great. It's great to know that people are thinking about this and wanting change. I can only speak about it from a musicians standpoint and I'm always thinking about what I can do to help the situation. It's interesting to me that Pittsburgh is filled with foundations that support the arts and many musicians don't take the opportunity to use that support. We "musicians" have the opportunity to write new works, submit grant proposals, and come up with a variety of new ideas. If anyone wants the names of these organizations, I'd love to fill them in. They are rarely approached by musicians. They are always approached for education, theatre collaborations, dance etc. Again, I want to make it clear that I'm not knocking the large amount of quality musicians that this area has to offer. I'm simply saying that it's easy to point a finger at a problem (which I guess I'm doing). It's difficult to be the solution. I know it sounds cliche but Ghandi said it best. "Be the Change you wish to see in the world"

George,

I also agree that the quality of musicianship needs to be at a certain level. It's tough when there is no one policing the quality though. The audience doesn't really police it, the bands don't want to offend anyone, and the owners of clubs are simply looking at numbers. Again, it's up to the musicians to set the level of quality by being on the highest level possible. Roger is definitely the best example of this. He brings 100% percent to the table every single time! We can all learn and aspire to that level of greatness.

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Marc,

I agree with what you are saying. However, as I'm sure you know, every situation has difficulties that are unique to it. In Sounthern Cali the economic situation cannot possibly be as depressed as it is in Pittsburgh. No making excuses for people but Pittsburgh, over the past 30 years, has gone through tremendous economic difficulty. As we both know, southern California isn't a place that's full of lower middle class folks. I know they are there. I'm simply saying that where you are lacking in land due to zoning, we are lacking in funds. Your right though. Not an excuse.

I find that venues for performers of all of the music genres, not just Jazz players, are in peril. Pittsburgh is not the only city with this problem.
I just got back from Las Vegas and even there, you will find very few live bands playing on the strip, in the lounges anymore. I would have thought venues there would be the one place live music would stll be the norm. Instead I found very few lounge bands performing. I saw a few folks singing to tracks. I didn't dig it but God bless them if they can find a gig that way, that pays. I do have a bitch about DJ's who think they are entertainers, there are a lot of them there. And they are strongly supported!
I agree with Sean about how we, the performer have to give the public something to look forward to seeing as well as hearing. It aslo is the sign of the times......the economy is bad. It has become too costly for many folks to come out of their safe, comfortable and well equipt entertainment centered homes; and go to see a player that is on some stage blowin' his or her "arse" off and entertaining..... only himself!
I'm a firm believer that no matter what genre of music you perform, no matter how many chords you know and no matter what school you graduated from, this music business is a business; you gotta know that. And you have to be an entertainer and entertaining too!

All that has been said by you all, is true. There is no one answer to solve the problem. Live venues need patrons, but the patron population is shrinking.

We must grow an audience to fill any venue, how do you do that when you have hardly any sites to hear new inovators to stimulate new recruits to jazz and refresh old lovers of the music. You need more than one Radio Jazz outlet to provide a broad spectrum of jazz, when there is only one, you get only a narrow slice of the pie.

There are some musicians who give lackluster performances and get p****d when they're not given praise for their performance. Let's be real, if it is a free concert or a paid concert the quality should be the best. Remember if that bad performance is someones only knowledge of how you play they will not go where you are in the future.

Greetings fellow jazz lovers,

Just returned from Motown during the Labor Day Weekend where there was music on all cylinders. Forgive the boring details as I make mention of the honorable lineup of artists that performed at the 2008 Detroit International Jazz Festival that has been hosting this venue free for thirty (30) years.

Christian McBride, Dizzy Gillespie All-Star Big Band, Barry Harris Trio w/Rodney Whitaker, & Lewis Nash, The Heath Bros. Quartet, Slide Hampton, James Moody, Dianne Reeves, Thad Jones w/Jon Faddis, Les McCann, Sean Dobbins & the Jazz Messengers, Ravi Coltrane w/Charlie Haden, Jack DeJohnette, Geri Allen & Brandee Younger, Kenny Garrett Quartet, Gerald Wilson w/Kenny Burrell vs.Count Basie Orchestra w/Nnenna Freelon, Pat Martino, Benny Golson Quartet, Roy Hargrove Quintet, Stanley Jordan Trio, Randy Brecker and many more...

Needless to say, if we appreciate this noble art form as I am sure we do; we should do all we can to assemble this calibre of talent at a venue under the name "Jazz at the Point" We have the perfect place to showcase our city while building a national tourist attraction that would bring millions of dollars into our fledging economy. "YES WE CAN!!!"

In the age of short attention spans and long working hours, it is not surprising that live venues are hurting. People went out and danced to swing bands before there was TV to watch. To know jazz is to love jazz but it takes time to learn about jazz and it takes real energy to get off the couch and go out after working 12 hours.
Live jazz has the best chance of success in today's world when linked to our most basic needs, desires, longings, ie. intimacy, connection, creativity, fun. To that end, jazz venues should experiment with links to activities and social groups that meet those basic human needs. More thoughts on this later. .. Just remember I was the person who thought cell phones would never sell because what did people have to talk about that couldn't wait?
Kira
P.S. If you thought this comment was long and boring then you know the uphill battle live jazz is facing.

Coments well taken,Im in South Fla.for a year and a hlf,soon to be back in the Burgh for good.Nothin here as far as a music scene,everybody playin along with tracks,what a joke.We as a musical community have to get back to basics and create more live playing situations.I know it's hard with money and all but we need to unite and let the music speak and people will listen.I'm returning to Pit,with my B-3 and stuff and will be comin to play. wherever Weve got to let history repeat,make things like they used to be,live entertainment everywhere,sounds like a dream,but dreams come true.

Fight back? Of course we'll fight back! If you had a cure for Ebola virus wouldn't you fight back until people started to listen? If people or owners don't know that live music is healing, exciting, that live music is part of the cure to save us all from becoming consumer robots then we just have to keep trying. To keep it to ourselves would be plain selfish. After all that healing maybe some of us could come up with ideas to create more playing venues...hmmm