Please Advise: Just what are Jazz fans looking for????

[Gypsy Cafe]

I want to recap a conversation I just had with someone calling to ask about Don Aliquo's perfornance at our restaurant, Gypsy Cafe, tonight:

Caller: What time does the music start tonight?
Me: About 8:30
C: How long do they play?
M: Until about 11
C; Oh, that's pretty good. (She is about to hang up...)
M: Would you like to make a reservation?
C: Why, is there a cover?
M: Not if you purchase a dinner entree.
C: Can't we just get a drink or dessert?
M: If you don't order a dinner entree or the equivalent, we charge a $10 cover
C: Oh. Per table?
M: No, the cover is per person.
C: Oh. Wow.
M: We are a restaurant....
C: (hangs up)

Jazz Community--please help. I am genuinely perplexed as to how to handle this. I've written about this before and invited input but I haven't gotten any responses. From my perspective, here are the issues:

1. We don't want to have to charge a cover. We instituted this because of how many folks come in for nearly three hours of live entertainment and expect to order, say, a glass of wine or an iced tea or maybe an appetizer for the night. I can not support and pay musicians on fans who spend $5 per person, period.

2. So, in an effort to see to the needs of all parties--cafe, fans, musicians--we started to say we would charge a cover of $10 waived with the purchase of a dinner entree. Frankly, each seat I have in my cafe is worth $25 every two hours. This means, if I'm not making $12.50 per seat per hour in the busiest times of the evening, I'm not covering my ends--mind you, not profit here--employees, food, overhead. Ordering an entree covers me and justifies paying musicians. Again, to try to please everyone, here was the thinking:
a. Start Jazz later (9pm and on) so we can make less per seat per hour. Result: Even though it's a Saturday night, most potential guests think this is far too late.
b. If it seems too late to eat dinner, pay a cover. I personally don't think an intimate personal music event with well-regarded musicians in a room that is great for sound and sight in a seat at a table with people waiting on you and offering a full bar and menu that you can choose NOT TO PARTAKE of by paying 10 bucks isn't too much to ask. Result: No one wants to pay a cover.

What are you experiencing elsewhere that makes what we're asking seem out of line to people? Are there places that let you come in at 7PM, stay for 3 hours, not order anything siginificant, and not pay a cover? If there are, they can not be for-profit establishments, certainly.

We would love to serve a musical community that seems to consider itself underserved; we would love to invite people to our cafe to hear music in a unique enviroment that's great for music, but at this point, we are simply subsidizing jazz music--and frankly, I'm not a non-profit. I'm a struggling business owner who hasn't seen a paycheck since May.

I read a post from someone who said he felt that Jazz had become a "Benedum event"--something to dress up and be fancy for and pay out the nose for. If what we are trying to offer seems to line up with a "benedum event" I don't know what to say beyond my intitial question--just what do jazz fans expect???

[Travis Klein]

This is my opinion and some experience. Very little meaningful jazz was recorded after 1970 and little of that gets played on WDUQ. The most exciting venues got wiped out with the riots of the 60's and the stars of jazz are mostly history. It's hard for me to beleive that people expect the same situation that existed then. The general public used to be acqauinted with jazz through much airplay even on top 40 radio, juke boxes, many retail outlets with knowledgable employees to buy jazz records, television exposure, etc.
One of the few restaurants that had any success with jazz (after 1970) was the Balcony. They were committed to it for the programming and brought in nationally known talent monthly. It wouldn't hurt to have a theme or plan when your musician gets up to play. It can't be a once in a while thing. Since many jazz fans are 60 or over (and dying every day), don't expect to succeed with so little understanding of the market.
Travis Klein [phone]

[Gypsy Cafe]

Travis,

Thank you for your response. I think this entire thread has been primer enough to give me the understanding I was lacking.

[Max Leake]

This is the side that many musicians don't look at. I feel your pain with this.

Here is my take on this, after 30 + years as a musician:

For some strange reason, jazz fans in Pittsburgh will have no problem going to New York or Chicago and paying a $30 (or more) per head cover charge. (usually accompanied by a 2 drink minimum @ $10 per drink) But, will refuse to pay a $5 cover charge at an establishment with local jazz talent. They will also say in the next breath that they are so lucky to have such incredible local talent that is every bit as good as what they experience in New York. I have personally been very frustrated by that for years.

Because of the nature of the music business here in Pittsburgh, a lot of the best musicians are utility players, playing in many configurations. One night they are backing up a vocalist at a club, the next night they at another establishment with a small group, another night with a big band, etc.. Most of those clubs where the band is small (2 - 3 players) do not charge a cover charge for the music. Two nights later the same person is playing at a place with a cover charge. The patrons either don't show up or they complain about it. So the establishment either stops charging a cover (and eventually go out of business) or they stop having music all together. Also, the musicians who are out there 5 - 6 nights a week playing end up over-exposing themselves and saturating an ever smaller market.

I wish I had a solution for this. I don't. Many of the musicians are looking at basic survival and can't pay their bills worrying about the long-term health of the local music scene. I also don't think that you would be able to get the clubs and restaurants together to all agree to charge a cover and make it a local standard.

I lived in Portland, OR for a time and all of the clubs there either charged a cover (which was the only pay the band got) or the band worked for a percentage of the bar. Either way, the band needed to take some responsibility to market itself, keep it's material fresh and it's presentation appealing. Otherwise, you weren't going to make much money. In many ways I think it was a better system that was more fair to all involved and helped keep the quality of the product higher.

I wish I had a better answer. Of course I would probably be rich if I did. :-)

Max Leake

[The Firehouse Lounge]

As the owner of a venue this is a really difficult market to tackle and not an easy obstacle to overcome. We have tried a number of options, most recently making our start time earlier so that people can migrate from our venue to CJ's just a few blocks away. We don't have a cover for Etta Cox, we offer 1/2 off bottles of wine (which means our profit is minimal), and now that we offer full size entrees I have noticed an increase in filled seats and pre-booked reservations, but it is still not a high profit night.

One of the biggest problems with generating a buzz in Pittsburgh is the lack of media response to the arts. Yes, DUQ does a great job, but seeing as though there arent' many true jazz fans left, it would be nice to see a little love to the venues still supporting it and in turn hopefully a new buzz would propel some new fans.

INFO:

Etta Cox and Friends
Thursday Nights
7-11pm (Kitchen open until 11pm)
1/2 off Wine Bottles

Would you pay a cover?

[Gypsy Cafe]

Max,

It's sad that so many responses--here and what I hear in person--seem to be, "that's the way Pittsburgh is". Maybe we're spoiled by our arts scene. It's been corporate-underwritten for so long and presented publicly we've forgotten where it all comes from--like making the disconnect that hamburgers start as cows! Maybe fans don't have a problem going to NY or Chicago and paying b/c "that's the way NY is". It's unfortunate that we're the way we are. I've often said that one of Pgh's biggest problems is that we spend so much time decrying what we don't have and not nearly enough time celebrating what we do have. Or, maybe we just have too much of a good thing after all and the folks I was hearing saying there's wasn't enough Jazz in town really meant there's wasn't enough innovative or new blood or FREE, for that matter.....

[david shane]

dear gypsy cafe, you're in a tough biz during tough times for everyone, especially artists and musicians, but hang in there.... I will try to encourage you too.... you've been given some great ideas here, the difference will be made up in your drawer in the long run..... try them! something will work..... jazz lovers will find you.... hang in there! ...... things take time ..... jazz will make its return to real places like yours,..... just save a little bit of room for dancing....

[Gypsy Cafe]

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I would feel better about them if we hadn't been having Jazz for more than 2 years already, long before the economy fell apart!

Unfortunately, there's never room for dancing!

Melanie

[Rodney Kelley Sr]

I'm sure you know that this problem is not only experienced by you but by clubs all around the country and there are a lot of reasons. Technology has allowed the user to not only listen to but to see the top artistist right from there own home, high crime has kept many away, lack of funds has hampered the spending trends of all. And as a working musician, I can say that musicians have hampered and contributed to this as well.Here in Baltimore you have very little of what I would call exclusive bands anymore. Everyone is a side man in everybody else's band thus everyone is playing the same music. People get tired of that, It is also a shame when a customer comes to a venue and spends $30-$50 on and evening and the band looks like Sh!@#. or If the start time is 6:00pm the band starts at 6:15 or 6:6:20. That happens a lot here. We have taken what is special out of live music and now that we are in a recession there is very little to pull from. In Baltimore it seems that very little bands put on a show anymore, it is just ther playing of songs. Most of the 10-15 minutes long. This drives people away.
If we are going to get people to pay for something, then we must give it "Recognizable" value and make them want it.
This is only part of the issue.

[Gypsy Cafe]

Mr. Kelley,

Wow. This is very insightful, but many of the things you mention are things we are ALL guilty for, as a nation. I think everyone's coming to the conclusion that it's time to turn things around; I just hope we get there before we lose everything that meant something to us. It's funny--I was just talking with a lady the other day who is an "industrial psychologist". She's one of the people with the ugliest jobs out there--she counsels the survivors of industrial accidents (like plane crashes, mine collapses, etc). She was talking about how worried she is about our humanity because of exactly what you say in the beginning of your note--that we are losing our ability to interact socially because we are dependent on things brought to us. I have to admit I'm guilty of it--I'm a Springsteen fan and was excited to see him at the Superbowl at halftime--thought he did an amazing job, esp for what you can imagine was a very HURRIED performance--and my husband suggested we get tickets for his show upcoming here at the Civic Arena in Pgh. I told my husband that I'd seen Springsteen live once already--and that the tickets I could afford were so bad the show wasn't worth the effort and I was better off seeing him on TV. Where does that put me except in a very hypocritical position???? I love Springsteen; I admire him as a performer; I'm "proud" of him as a fan, but my desire to express that admiration is limited by not only cost, but also knowing that I'd have a better experience seeing him at home on TV. I know that's not quite the same animal--I'm sure I'd pay a hell of a lot to see him in a room like ours that seats 50, but the thinking is the same. I value my comfort and pocketbook more than I value the artist, and I figure there's plenty of folks who WILL be there, so where's the harm? But what happens when more people think like me and a huge show DOESN'T sell out as expected, or we scale down a stadium to a 50 seat club....

You're also right about getting a good show. My experience with Jazz in Pgh is that it is very professional (still?). Musicians are on-time and business-like, although I wonder if that kind of lessens the performance, like with big name Rock acts who won't play encores b/c they're not contractually obligated to do so. I hear from other Pittsburghers and Jazz musicians that you are right on about a show not being unique. Work is tight and everyone is in everyone else's band....

Thank you for contributing to this discussion and giving me more things to think about!

Melanie

[Max Leake]

I'm sorry to hear that is happening in Baltimore now as well. I used to spend a great deal of time there when I was with Tim Eyermann's band. We used to play at Ethel's (I miss Ethel, haven't seen her in years) across from the Meierhoff as well as other establishments in the area. I remember a fairly vibrant local scene with bands like the Rumba Club who were great and doing their own thing. What you describe with the sideman thing is rampant here and unfortunately I am in middle of it. It really became the only way to maintain a living in Pittsburgh. You couldn't and can't keep a single band working enough to make a living, so everyone freelances to keep enough money coming in to be a professional musician. We have a few bands that have been able to keep up rehearsing and learning new material, but not many. The majority of bands end up being pickup bands playing the same material as all the other pickup bands.

[Olga Watkins]

Your question shouldn’t be 'what do jazz fans want'? It should be "what do my customers and potential customers want to hear and what can I afford to offer them"?

As a musician AND restaurant manager of many, many years and as someone who is in the process of opening a new restaurant here is my take on live music in food service venues. If your intent is to be a restaurant that offers live music as an amenity or to be a venue for music that offers food, there are 3 key components; planning, marketing and consistency.

First, in your business plan, projections and budget you have to plan to pay for live music. Your budget might only support $200 a week or even $200 a month, but if that's what you're sure you can afford then you need to look for duo acts that are appropriate for your space. If in your projections you can’t afford to take that weekly or monthly hit than it is almost certainly not in your best interest as a business owner to book live music.

In the projections for our new restaurant, we are confident that we can afford to spend $300 a week on entertainment. That's not a lot and it limits our booking options but we are a restaurant that is planning to offer music as an amenity to our customers without charging a cover. Charging a cover at a restaurant, particularly at a restaurant where you have regular customers, is perceived as a penalty by those customers. If you remember the days of the James Street on the north side, Craig never charged a cover unless he had a national act or a special event or CD release party and he remained successfully in business for 18 years. At the restaurant I currently manage, we don’t have enough space to have music regularly, because we make more money at the table for 4 that we’ll have to lose to host a band, so we save it for special occasions when we know it won’t put a strain on our bottom line.

You also have to have a really good understanding of your customer base and of what demographic of new customers will be attracted by which bands and will most likely become return customers. That may mean that your favorite bands are not necessarily the most appropriate for your space. Asking what jazz fans are looking for is too broad a question. What kind of jazz are you offering? Does it fit the demographic of your clientele and the clientele you’re trying to attract? You can’t ever hope to appeal to a demographic as general as “jazz fans.” If you really understand your market and can narrow down your target audience then you can streamline your promotions efforts quite a bit.

The other things in regard to choosing bands that have to be considered are first, the big spending, straight ahead jazz loving crowd of the 1990’s in Pittsburgh is no more. Most of those folks that spent big money in the 80’s and 90’s at Walt Harper’s, the Balcony, Club Café, Dizzy’s, Jazz Society events and other well known venues of the past were already in their fifties, sixties and seventies. With the raised standards in the DUI laws, the movement of many Western PA retirees southward and now the state of the economy and the loss of IRAs and retirement income for many, that segment of the population is not coming out to listen to jazz or anything else, especially if they will have to pay a cover.
It’s not up to your customers to front the money for your live entertainment. If you can’t budget it in, then you shouldn’t be doing it. If a specific band or event attracts more customers into your establishment then it’s up to you and your staff to sell them everything but the kitchen sink and provide service and product that will make them want to come back.

As to the artists you choose, you have to be confident that they are also doing their part to promote their appearance at your venue. If they don’t have a website, myspace, email list or other web based avenue of promotion, then chances are they’re leaving it all up to you.

Which leads me to the second key component, marketing. You can post your events for free in the City Paper, Post Gazette, Trib, on this networking site and others, on your myspace and on the websites of the local television stations. If you’re not doing that for every event, then you’re not taking advantage, as you should be, of all these free local resources. These days every business development expert will tell you that not only do you have to have a website but you should use it to procure the email addresses of your customers and potential customers and use regular email blasts to make contact with them and notify them of your special events. (I’m months away from opening the new joint and I already have a website and a email list of about 400 potential new customers. Regular email helps you remind your customers of why they want to spend money on your product in the first place.) It is also reasonable to ask the musicians you’re booking what they’re doing to promote their group and their shows. If all of us want to keep working as musicians, particularly in slimmer economic times, promotion has to be a team effort; whether we want to do it or not. I have been criticized in the past for being a shameless self promoter, but I haven’t lost any sleep about that. My band has regular gigs to show for it.

Finally, consistency is imperative. Figure out what you can afford, what your customers will support, what will bring in new customers in your target market, what bands will help promote themselves, then pick your night or nights for entertainment and stick to that. The bands that work at CJ's or the Guild, may not appeal to your customers.
You have to enter into the decision to offer live music with the budget and intent to give it at least a six month trial. We see all too often that a regular show or jam session will start out strong and then after one bad snow storm or slow holiday weekend, the event is cancelled by the restaurant owner. So again, I’m back to, if you can’t afford to support music consistently for an extended period of time, then you should consider waiting until you can. And as an aside, the easier it is for your customers to remember what night or nights you offer music, the better. (First Fridays, Second Saturdays, Sunday brunches, etc.) Your time frame for offering entertainment has to be based on you business. If your customers are twenty-somethings that will hang out until 1 or 2am, then try a 10 to 1. If your customers are a little older and like to lounge in your space on the weekends, try a Sunday brunch time frame. Your time frame won’t affect your ability to attract new customers as much as positive word of mouth from customers who support those various shows. They will help you attract new customers; their friends. That’s my 2 cents.